Events in Newtown, Connecticut, have put gun control and related topics at the top of the list for pundits, opinion columnists and Internet blog commenters. I am always hesitant to wade in too soon on such topics. It’s my tendency to go into “information gathering mode” before I start spouting off. I have been absorbing and researching and pondering for a while now, so I thought I would switch to my “spouting off” mode.
What can be said about the Sandy Hook Elementary school shooting that hasn’t already been said? One would typically have to go to a “holy” text to find such examples of horrific violence meted out upon the most innocent among us. At least the great human crimes of Attila the Hun*, Mao, Hitler and Stalin had [in their own minds] an enemy or obstacle to justify their actions. But 6-year-old kids?!?! These are people that are still dreaming about being a fireman or a basketball star and who spill over with pride when they color without going outside the lines. These victims were all aspiration and zero malice. (*Atrocity Trivia: By percentage of the world population killed, Atilla the Hun is the hands down “winner.” All done with first-century weapons and transport!)
Of course the topic of mental health comes up. What surprised me is that there are some that are hesitant to label the shooter “insane” or “mentally ill." I am not a psychologist, and I understand that there is uncertainty and ambiguity in diagnosing mental health, but I think we can read the targeted killing of innocent children as being, irrefutably, in the “mentally ill” slot. That said; there will always be the likes of Adam Lanza and there will always be senseless violence. Some have suggested getting more aggressive in identifying those that might be psychologically frail and denying them access to guns. The problem here is that, to “catch” the possible offenders in a numerically useful way, the bar would be set so high that very few of us would pass muster. The rate of “false positives” would be intolerable.
Gun control, though, is usually the first thing that rolls off people’s lips. This pits the Second Amendment against everyone’s desire to keep our kids (and society generally) safe from gun violence. On one hand, we have the clear examples of countries with comparatively Draconian gun controls having far less gun crime. On the other hand, we have the Constitutional protection of the Second Amendment allowing private citizens to own firearms. The latter has been a contentious issue for some time and there is/was ambiguity in the text of the amendment. Was that right there to support our federal government to be able to assemble a ready fighting force to repel a foreign aggressor? Was that right there so that the citizenry could defend itself against our own government run amok? (Remember, it was by no means certain that our experiment in democracy would be stable and successful for the long term). I think there are passable arguments on both sides...though, for original intent, I lean toward “supporting the federal government”.
That aspect of the Second Amendment has been laid to rest though. As I often say; “The Constitution is only what the Supreme Court says it is.” In 2008, the supreme court ruled that gun ownership rights go beyond the need for the government to quickly assemble an army. Some amongst us may not be happy with that interpretation but, in a sense, we really can’t argue with that. The SCOTUS done spoke!
So...how do we maintain Constitutional rights and minimize the risk of gun violence for our kids and society generally? Like many issues, this is complex. Like too many issues, some factions like to claim that there are simple solutions...if that simple solution comports with their ideology or their pet interest. Everyone, by now, is aware of the NRA contention that the problem of too many guns can be fixed by even more guns. If we look at events like Newtown in history, that contention doesn’t really hold up (never mind the evidence that strict gun controls reduce net gun violence). More importantly; why would we care what such an obviously biased actor in this debate has to say? The NRA’s contention is well refuted by my nephew: “I can only assume the World Clown Association thinks school shootings can be prevented with more clowns in schools.” As soon as I heard the NRA statement I recalled how, when I see foreign news footage with armed guards/military everywhere, I think “I am sure glad I don’t live there!”.
Really...we can analyze the evidence on gun control and parse Constitutional rights just fine without the input of the NRA, thank you.
So....
What is a society to do? We know how to reduce gun violence based on the examples of other countries. Fewer guns mean fewer gun deaths. Unfortunately we have the pesky Constitution thingy that...rightly...gets waved around.
Can we just keeps guns out of the hands of the bad guys or the mentally ill? I doubt it. As I mentioned earlier; the bar would have to be set so low to make an appreciable difference that very few people would qualify to purchase a firearm. Plus, we are probably all aware that the weapons used in Newtown, Connecticut were legally acquired and registered by his mother.
What if we ban assault weapons? First we would have to define an assault weapon...and that is harder than it sounds. Is it just scary-looking rifles? There are handguns that hold upwards of 17 rounds that can probably inflict more carnage than some of those assault rifles. It’s all physics. Guns are about converting chemical energy (gunpowder) into kinetic energy (a flying bullet) and then transferring that energy to a target (let’s say a tin can on a fencepost).
I would suggest that there is a compromise that will not satisfy either camp...so it’s probably pretty good. What if we somehow put a cap on the killing power of weapons that are publicly available. Let’s have every firearm ranked in terms of its ability to unleash death and destruction. I’ll call it the “Death and Destruction Rating” (or DDR). The open-ended DDR would be determined by analyzing the following:
- How many rounds can be fired in a set period of time (i.e. 30 seconds) as determined by an independent testing agency.
- The size and mass of the projectile
- The charge size (how much “gunpowder” is in each round)
- The useful range
- Physical size / ease of concealment
Somehow those factors would be distilled into a single number that would generally correlate with how many people it could kill in given period of time. With the DDR, you could have a rifle that could take down a buck at 1000 feet, but you might not be able to get off a round or two before you were forced to pause through some design feature.
I don’t think we can realistically change the Constitution on this matter (nor would would I necessarily want to). Nor do I don’t think we can write off the high level of U.S. gun violence as the “price of freedom”. Compromise is pretty foreign in today’s politics, but if events like Sandy Hook can’t get us to think about it, then we are in a pretty bad place.
I am, actually, empathetic to the second amendment arguments that the right to bear arms is there to protect the population from government run amok. Of course it used to seem merely and abstraction when we weren't so hot-headed, vitriolic, and divided. Now, with the likes of Ted Nugent and pretty much every Fox talking head claiming the collapse of our society under a socialist despot (and people believing it), I begin to wonder how abstract the idea of an armed insurrection might be. Like you, I don't have too much patience for those that ignore a problem or don't offer solutions or rely on faith-based thinking. That sense of power with guns shouldn't be dismissed. I've not shot any gun so speak of but, as an engineer, I like guns as precision machines, but would never consider buying one. There is a far greater likelihood of my killing a family member than an intruder is what the evidence says.
To obtain a license to own a firearm one must be of age, pass a rigorous course on safety, security, law, responsibility, and practical use; also a thorough background check and psyc, exam. All guns will have a title, just as cars do. The title must be transferred whenever ownership of a gun changes. Titles, licenses, and ownership are databased. Guns and their owners can be identified quickly. Owners will be held legally responsible for the security of weapons that they own. If a gun is stolen, lost, or goes missing the owner may be held legally liable if it can be demonstrated that the gun was not properly secured. If an unsecured, missing gun is later used in a crime the owner may face a civil suit by those injured as well. Any unlicensed person caught with a gun would face serious prison time; say 15-20 years. Anyone carrying a gun during the commission of a violent crime would face life. Result: licensed owners can own any firearms that they wish but will be held legally responsible if they fall into the wrong hands. Unlicensed persons face such stiff punishment for possession that only the truly stupid or the deranged would take the chance. It would take several years for a plan like this to be implemented and become effective but I bet that it would seriously lower gun deaths in the US without violating the Constitution, which calls for regulation.
Then we can implement Colin's idea of mandatory classes in safety, responsibility, law (which would all be Government run, of course) as well as Psychological exams (more Government employees). Of course if someone is wrongfully diagnosed and prevented form exercising his Constitutional right to gun ownership, there will be a a lot of new fodder for ACLU lawyers. Sounds like a win-win. More jobs for government employees, more lawsuits - everyone wins! Except of course for the victims of gun violence. Which wouldn't be reduced one bit by this massive bureaucratic circle-jerk.
While we wait, consider that, with the exception of maybe the testing of firing rate, anything I suggested is already known and can be readily provided by the manufacturer for free. It's not a Ouija board. It's a math formula. Look at all the massively complex and expensive testing we demand of auto manufacturers to meet safety standards. This isn't 1/1000th of that burden. There is nothing subjective (like "what constitutes scary?"). How much energy can be transferred from gunpowder to targets in a given period of time over what distance is all that is involved. I am pretty sure the ATF already has Excel.
Annual registration might help, but I think psych evaluations are rife with problems.
The whole point behind my idea is that legitimate, trained gun owners do not present a threat, at least according to the NRA. It is those who have obtained guns illegally and intend to use them that way that present the biggest problem. By making guns instantly traceable to their legal owners and by setting an extremely high penalty for illegal possession I believe that we can almost eliminate the illegal gun market. Owners would very quickly learn that it will be their responsibility to secure their guns at all times. Again, the NRA says that the majority of legitimate owners already do this. But this idea would eliminate "straw buyers" and the major sources of todays illegal gun traffic without denying ownership of any kind of weapon to legitimate owners. BTW, your attempt at sarcasm and attacks on Mike and me demean your argument. Give us a better solution.
Nah---on second thought, scrap the psyc. exam and simply train and hold legit owners responsible for security. I think that if owners had held their guns in locked gun safes Columbine and Newtown might never have happened. If guns are titled and traceable, and if one is required to pass a comprehensive and rigorous course on safety, security, knowledge of the law, and practical procedures of using a gun before being able to purchase it I think that most of the other mass shootings might have been avoided. I also think that a program like this would cut way down on the biggest problem: the number of gun murders in our cities.
Use high-speed laser etching in bullet manufacture to mark *every* bullet (not the casing, the [usually] lead slug) with a unique or near-unique identification. Bullets would be registered in the same manner as guns are. Assuming we could get an appreciable number of those markings to survive firing and impact; it could be a real deterrent to the criminal element. It wouldn't do anything for the Sandy Hooks where the shooter is expecting to be dead though. Obviously, expensive and complex, but then we wouldn't need to find the gun, just the bullet.
Guns DON't Kill people People Kill people! just saying the triggers don't pull themselves.
And, in fairness, Rudy.... Colin's point was that you would be "caught with a constitutionally legal piece of hardware" that was INVOLVED IN A VIOLENT CRIME or out of the control of the registered owner. Just a weee bit of difference there. Nobody cares if you have a legally owned car, but they care if you use it run over a group of people at a bus stop. I'll present the same question to you, Rudy. Given that the U.S. is such an outlier in the amount of gun crime, what would your solution be to address gun crime? At least a few here are trying to offer or brainstorm some solutions.
Illinois has some of, if not the strictest gun laws in the country, yet Chicago is the murder capitol of the country. Try fixing unemployment, the entitlement mentality, mental health care. Those are the real problems.
The Constitution was written 220 years ago for a very different time. It is not a writ of holy scripture, it is a political document meant to be amended as circumstances require. We are protected from foreign invasion by the largest, most powerful army the world has ever known. They don't need our help, thank you. No matter how strict our state laws are they are useless because of the ease of buying guns in other states and bringing them here. If the laws that we have don't work that does not mean that laws can't work, just that our laws are too spotty, inconsistent, and easily avoided. We must have strong, uniform, national laws in order for them to work. I think that Mike and I are still waiting for some positive suggestions. All we seem to be getting are excuses, attacks, and the old "It can't be done. We can't change" nonsense. So please answer this for me. Why does anyone really need a semi-automatic, 15 shot rifle or pistol? For that matter, why does anyone in this Country really need any firearm besides a legitimate hunting rifle or shotgun?
Like the disturbed Rahm Emanuel says and I quote You never let a serious crisis go to waste! And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before. Rahm Emanuel In other words get them while they are down! These are our Leaders Really??
I feel that same outrage when I hear about child abuse. Or childhood cancer. Or drunk drivers killing people. Or young people dying from drug overdoses. The thing is, we can't just throw more laws at a problem and make everything better. I think you stated the problem yourself a few posts back: "Unlicensed persons face such stiff punishment for possession that only the truly stupid or the deranged would take the chance. " The problem, Colin, is that it is precisely those people who are killing innocents, and all your classes, courses and checks won't stop it. You and your friend Mike really seem like 2 really sweet men who are grasping for something, anything that will make sure this can't ever happen again, but your emotions are making you illogical, All the best, I'm checking out of this thread.
Fact: U.S. per-capita gun violence only lags behind the third world (or near-third world) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate. We are dramatically more violent (and religious btw) than other first-world nations. Fact: The single biggest factor correlating with reduced gun violence is reduced availability of guns at the national level. Nobody here has even suggested banning public ownership of firearms. For myself I suggest inexpensive measures that would allow powerful weapons but limit their ability to cause mass murder. From the pro-gun side, we only heard "oh well, such is life" or "fix poverty, drug use and those suckling at the government teat [!?]". Poke holes in my arguments all you want. I like to be shown where I am wrong, but the few that have made their presence known on this thread offer *nothing* to address the level of U.S. gun violence. Dismissing a middle-ground is what is wrong with government today and the root of our divisions in the U.S. and on this thread (IMHO).
Solution-allow concealed carry in Illinois. The opportunistic crimes will decrease dramatically, let the cops focus on major crimes. All these scenarios of Charles Bronson in the park are ridiculous. The scope of crime-ridden areas will shrink, Michigan Avenue will be safe to walk again, so will parking your car w/o having a gun in your back.
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=1 And here is a piece by statistics wizard Nate Silver on gun ownership vs party affiliation, education, income and more: http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/in-gun-ownership-statistics-partisan-divide-is-sharp/
Here's a tip for you-Anyone who writes, "that said," and then completely discounts anothers opinion (NRA) based on personal agenda is uninteresting.
That said [ ;-) ], I'll probably move on to another blog topic now should I find the time. I'll send you an email warning so you can avert your eyes from Patch. I do appreciate your driving up my readership!
Please move on and continue writing, Mike. I just ran out of toilet paper.
Evidence and real life experience shows that strict, enforceable gun controls reduce gun related deaths. Like it or not, that is a fact. Anyone is free to dissemble, disbelieve or whatever they wish but that does not change the fact. I also find it interesting that Mike and I have suggested several possible approaches toward possibly addressing this problem and have repeatedly asked others to share their thoughts on how to address the problem. What we have received are ad hominem attacks, criticism without accompanying counter proposals, and a repeated denial of information and documented facts without any actual attempt to back up assertions with documentation. I have seen this same pattern on other blogs on the same subject. Mike and I may be wrong but no one has yet produced any actual evidence to demonstrate that. At this point I have pretty much lost respect for what I have seen on the "pro-gun" side of this discussion. I think I'll drop out of this thread too. It's become a waste of time since, aside from Mike's posts I have not learned anything useful and doubt that i will. Thanks for the discussion anyway.
Get a group together, formulate some idea's, set up a meeting with Rep. Hultgren and pitch him. I'm willing to bet that he would sit down with a reasonable group of D14 constituent's to get input. Changing his position might be another question but I bet he would meet. I put together a group that met with former Rep Foster and it was actually well recieved and rewarding. Colin you have my email address if your interested. Rice
Mine apparently did not meet the standard of approval. No obscenity, no personal attack - just pointing out a logical fallacy on Mr. Bruno's part.