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Parents Express Concern About Class Sizes at Mill Creek
Parents say some kindergarten and first-grade classes have 27 or 28 students. Geneva School District officials monitoring the numbers closely.
Two Mill Creek residents made pleas to the Geneva School Board this week to do something about the class sizes for kindergarten and first grade at Mill Creek Elementary School.
During the public comment portion of Tuesday's Geneva District 304 School Board meeting, Melissa Swierczewski talked about what she called "the bubble of enrollment" at the school and asked the board to consider creating a third section for kindergarten.
"This is bigger than just my little guy," she said. "I'm speaking to you about the big picture, not just my one student."
Swierczewski said there were 27 student in her son's kindergarten class.
"Even the most wonderful teacher—even that teacher will not have (a chance to succeed with 27 students.) There are too many little minds to engage under those conditions," she said.
"It’s these little students who will be representing District 304 just a few short years from now," she said. "Let’s continue that tradition of excellence."
Swierczewski said she was a former educator, so she knows firsthand how important class size is to a quality learning environment. She said 15 is the optimum number of students per class, and results decrease with every student over that number.
She said she understands that the School Board has to look at the big picture, but in this case, she said, "I discourage your from thinking big. Instead, think small."
Another Mill Creek Elemetary School mom told the board that her son's first-grade class has 28 students. She said the class went from two teachers to one with a shared aide.
"My concern is that my child is not getting the education that he needs," she said. "It is not acceptable to have 30 students (in an early-education classroom.)"
Assistant Superintendent for Human Resources Craig Collins said the district is seeing an increase in the number of preschool students. He said the administration closely monitors the enrollment numbers and will come back to the board for with a recommendation, "if we need to add or reduce sections."
"We didn’t anticipate this increase in preschool," he said. "We’ll have to see if this is a trend or a momentary blip."
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Robert Danek
3:20 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Do these classrooms have any full/part time assistants, reading specialists, room moms/high schoolers assigned to them to assist these teachers? And are these resources assigned to these classrooms greater than those for the usual 20 student rooms at other schools to account for the larger number of students? I'd love a response from someone attached to the school district.
Mill Creek is brand new so I hope there are other perks to having children assigned there like shorter bus rides or better equipment that they might not otherwise have had 3 years ago before so much property tax money was spent. If they money hadn't been spent, would we now have 35 student classes at the other grade schools?
Avett Green
8:25 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Mill Creek Elementary is hardly new. It was built 16 years ago.
Dwight Swartwood
3:39 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
I know went to 1st grade a thousand years ago, in 1950. We had 34 in my class. Teacher's aids were unheard of. Kindergarden did not exists. Our school was an old wooden building with absolutely no amenities. We went to school in ancient old busses on dirt roads. We had one administrator and one school secretary for all 12 grades. But some how all 34 of us graduated. Some went on to college and became teachers, doctors, lawyers and business leaders. I believe we were one of the smallest and poorest school districts in Pennsylvania. Although family incomes were small, our cost of living was low. We did not think of ourselves as poor. Everyone was in the same boat. Poor.
Now the ideal elementary class size is 15. The schools are built like air conditioned monasteries. The school buses are less than 2 years old, and every amenity known to man is included in the school programs. Administrators, vice-administrators, deans, other overheads are bumping into each other. Technology is abundant and teaching and learning tools are everywhere.
If modern parents want classrooms of 15-20, they will have to start setting priorities.
Susan
7:17 am on Thursday, June 14, 2012
I'm sorry to tell you, this is no longer the 1950's, more is required from our children today, AND at an earlier age. We're you doing algebra in 1st grade? I sure wasn't and I attended elementary school in the late 70's early 80's. In the 1950's children who were disruptive were either paddled or sent home, that isn't done today, so when you have 30 children in a class, and 4 are acting out due to different disorders, it takes the one teacher away from the other 26 students. My priorities are set, and they are to see that my child receives a proper education, and is in the optimum environment. Every other grade in the school has three teachers per grade, EXCEPT ours, there is something wrong with that.
Gary
10:42 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
It's sad that the fiscal mis-management has put us so deep in debt with high interest bonds (needed to circumvent the law about how much debt we can incur) is taking money away from the classroom.
Martina Natoma
10:54 pm on Friday, June 1, 2012
Imagine a kindergarden class size of 15! Imagine a senior math class with 10 kids!
Now imagine you can take your 10k tax bill over to that school and give them your tax money, instead of being forced to give it to the local teachers union (aka public school)... with it's class size of 30, and where your librarian draws 120,000.00 a year.
If you want control of your kids education, encourage the growth of an Illinois voucher system, or even charter school options, such as Romney has recently proposed.
Just like in all other things American, parents should have viable options, other than to relocate. Your children's school shouldn't be based on the neighborhood in which you happen to reside.
Jennifer Rowe
8:10 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
My daughter is enrolled in private school, always has and always will be. In her kindergarten class there were 30 children, she and her classmates did very well. Parents need to step up to the plate and do work with their children at home. The school room is not the end all be all in education! The rest of the community does not want to go broke so that your child can have 15 children in a class, everyone can make the sports team and have a new shiny computer for all! Fiscal responsibility!
Derek
8:45 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
There was just a bunch of articles in the patch about the uproar over the opening of Fabyan Elementary School with barely enough students to open the doors. This school is about 1 mile from Mill Creek. Simple solution, move some students to this school. We have the room. It's already built. Kind of a no brainer at this point. If you are worried about your child "adjusting" to the new school and students, you shouldn't be. My son was the ONLY 5th grade boy to be moved over when they opened Fabyan and he has more friends now than he knows what to do with.
Bob McQuillan
1:28 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Derek
I don't think the problem is room in the school since every elementary school in the district has empty seats and/or classrooms. In a study done in December 2010, there were 880 empty seats (capacity) across the elementary level. We are way overbuilt, space is not the problem. The issue is should another class be made and a new teacher hired. I would tend to agree that once a 1st or 2nd grade classroom has over 22 students it can get difficult to control. So if that is the problem, the solution is simple. That school principal has to find some way to cut expenses so that a new teacher can be hired. Priorities need to be set, what do you want more an additional teacher or $70,000 on something else. We can no longer afford both, so a choice must be made. Which is more important? Don't add something without giving something up. It is budgeting 101.
Thomas
9:51 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Based on the 2011-2012 Dist 304 contract the starting salary of a newly hired teacher is $39,651. The soonest anyone could make $70,000 under the current contract would be someone with 9 years of experience and has earned 2 masters degrees. If you look at the current hiring practices of the district the only new teachers that are being hired are those that have just graduated and would earn the base salary. So the "school board" not the building principal would have to decide whether spending and additional $39,651 would be worth keeping control of classroom sizes. The school board and superintendent determines what the budget of each building will be. Principal's can request extra staffing but ultimately the final decision on whether that money is spent is the school boards and the superintendent's
Patrick
2:07 pm on Monday, June 4, 2012
I agree with what Derek is saying 100%. Everyone keeps blaming the teachers for everything where its the board and administrators who need to figure this out with the means that they have. After all, how much do they make? Hundreds of thousands of dollars, WAAAY too much that is for darned sure. Come on Mr. Collins, this snuck up on you? Is there a communication gap amongst Geneva feeder schools and 304 itself. That is the problem. Fix administration!!!
Pam Gossman
10:33 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
My daughter goes to a private school in Geneva and she has 4 kids in her class. Believe me class size does matter. Her teachers do not spend half the day in "classroom management" stuff, but rather inidividual learning. I never thought I would have her in a private school with the $$$ of taxes we pay, but cannot beat this level of education.
Jack
11:37 am on Saturday, June 2, 2012
You don't like the public school set-up? Put your kids in private schools.
You don't like paying twice to educate your kids? The fault lies in the legislature. So fix it, with vouchers or another solution that gives true school choice.
You will never get satisfaction from a system that is built from the ground up to have two main priorities -- to look good, and to pay the teachers.
John R
12:33 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
I commend the two parents who spoke up at the last Board meeting regarding there concerns related to classroom size. Classroom size does matter and does effect the quality of education. Anything greater than twenty six or so students becomes more like crowd control in the classroom and the quality of education deminishes.
Derek has a good suggestion to shift some kids to Fabyan which has some extra capacity. I believe Williamsburg is also bursting at the seams so maybe some of those kids could be shifted to Fabyan as well.
Stacy
8:57 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
I don't understand why he district doesn't do some redrawing of boundary lines. Some Williamsburg kids actually live closer to Western as well as Mill Creek kids to Fabyan. It is difficult to move your kids, but it might make sense to shift boundaries instead of hiring new teachers. If someone can figure out the new lines as well as the new bus routes, it may be the best way to get kids in the schools that are closest to their homes without making them overpopulated.
Kelli Trejo
9:59 am on Wednesday, February 20, 2013
We are in Batavia and are Zone 20 on the Boundary map. The District is attempting to shift the boundary and move us to Western, as you have suggested. My baby is in 3rd grade at Williamsburg. We had 2 children before her and we are a double-income family. Working full-time and living so far from school (any school), I have great difficulty getting to know school staff, other children's parents and even the other children for that matter. Uprooting kids is an easy fix for you since I am guessing you are not in my situation. It would, however, be harmful to my child as the move would be equivalent to moving out of District. The children in 8a at least have neighbors attending Fabyan. Those are kids they likely already see at the local park or perhaps even ride bikes with. Our children are outsiders all the way around. We don't have the benefit of already knowing others at any new school. Maybe a phased plan to move the kids so as not to uproot those with some history at Williamsburg would be beneficial? Begin the move with the kidergarteners or new families in District. This would allow for a gradual change and no one would be affected by the move. That is unless the District plans on shifting us again in a few years?
Jack
10:14 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
Thomas,
The starting salary of a newly hired teacher may be $39,651, but it costs us considerably more than that to have her in place. Let's not forget that what a teacher sees in his check is only part of what we shell out.
Bob McQuillan
12:02 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Jack & Thomas
You are correct that 40k is the starting salary and then you add on medical benefits, which are up to $20,000 per year and the amount the district contributes toward retirement (@1.4%) and other items and you are up to about $70,000 in total expenditures. Yes, the asst. superintendent of human resources requests the new hire but the recommendation comes from the principal and he has a budget to work with. My point is that this district and no longer continue to add costs without cutting an offsetting amount.
Thomas, I wonder if you used our website www.genevataxfacts.org? If you read the contract, you know that base salary is just that base.
Thomas
6:18 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Interesting Bob, based on your data 1.4% of $39,651 is $555 putting district costs at roughly $40,206 and It is my understanding that the insurance costs to the district varies based on the actual health plan the employee chooses i.e. Individual or Familly, HMO or PPO, and some choose not to be covered at all because they prefer to be covered under the private sector insurance of their spouse. That would make it difficult to make the blanket statement that all new hires cost the district $70,000. Couldn't you give us exact #'s on health insurance costs to the district? Also doesn't private sector employers have to contribute 6.2% to their employees social security retirement? How is it that schools get away with just 1.4% toward retirement? Good thing teachers don't pay into Social Security. Could you imagine if the district had to pay almost 5x what they currently do for teacher retirement benefits? Oh and by the way the website www.familytaxpayers.org has the pay of every teacher in the state not just Geneva and probably not that creepy tracking software that keeps tabs on everyone that visits their site.
Bob McQuillan
4:49 pm on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Thomas
Here is your list of teachers salary and benefit costs from last year. http://www.genevataxfacts.org/attachments/article/49/2010-2011%20Teachers%20Salary%20and%20Benefits.pdf
So now add an 12% for the increase in medical premiums this year and you are climbing toward that $70k. You certainly aren't close to $40k in overall costs. We don't track people who are on our website.
Dwight Swartwood
11:07 pm on Saturday, June 2, 2012
I think most are missing the main point. Everyone wants everything. But, the fact is, everything is no longer possible. In Europe, where the first 10-11 years of school learning (they don't need or require 12 years) is far superior to the USA, and their physical schools are small and simple.
We have been led to believe we must have very large and very expensive physical school facilities. We have girls and boys gyms, a public gym, cultural centers, auditoriums, student centers, special teaching and learning centers, large lobbies, teacher lounges, teacher offices and way too much administration and management overhead.
In private business, administration and management overhead has been slashed by more than 70% over the last 10 years. In our public schools, administration and management overhead has increased more than 70%.
No one has ever said they we more competitive and more successful because their physical schools were the best and biggest. It has never been about that. You do good as an adult because you had at least some good teachers and parents who made you focus on your studies, and a solid culture of learning.
Parents and taxpayers have to set better priorities. School boards are incapable. We have to get rid of the fluff and marginal expenditures that are pushing school costs through the roof.
Bob McQuillan
12:14 am on Sunday, June 3, 2012
Dwight
You hit the nail on the head. Small example is that the floor at Fabyan, I guess in some cases is already coming up, it was installed improperly. The district received $158,000 from the bond that was put up when the store was built because the installer went out of business. The district has gone to bid for replacement. Board member, Mike McCormick, asked on Tuesday what the replacement would cost. A staff member said he didn't know but there is a good chance that it will cost more than $158k. The next statement should have been, "the board refuses to spend more than $158k so find a replacement floor that costs less than $158k." That bid might come in at $200k or more. What happens then? Does there REALLY need to be expensive tile floor in an elementary school? The answer is NO. Live within your means. If we don't have it, don't spend it.