I would expect that it will find a cure for cancer next.

Or world peace!

I applaud you, Mr. Boyle, for putting the wonderful results out here for doubters and skeptics to read. I am so happy for your kids. Be prepared for an onslaught of negativity to your positive results. Some people just can't stand for others to find a great change that doesn't fit their idea of what is supposed to "work" in our society. Again, congratulations!

According to the article, the virtual school's graduation rate is 81%. CUSD303's current graduation rate is 95%, and scores much higher in every area. It doesn't seem like a good idea to take money out of a school system with a 95% graduation rate and push it to a system that has a much, much lower graduation rate AND a profit motive.

usagi: That figure is for the 2010-11 school year. According to NIU's Interactive Report Card, the graduation rate at CVCS dropped to 45% in 2011-12:

http://iirc.niu.edu/School.aspx?source=AYP_Information&source2=AYP_Report&schoolID=15016299025225C&level=S

I really enjoyed reading about the success that your children have had with this program. This charter is a 'choice', so any parent happy with what they currently have can keep going. Others may make a different choice..25-1% of a district is what they are saying will utilize this option. Also, it was clear in our presentation that it was not a 12 year commitment. So, maybe this is an option for a reason for a while. There are options for courses that my children will never see in their brick and mortar time. Thanks again for sharing your family's story.

I'm glad to hear it's worked for your kids. Unfortunately, the proposal for the Charter in Fox River Valley doesn't include a free computer for students who enroll.

Mr. Boyle,
Congratulations on your children's success. The problem I have is with the fact that this K-12 charter school wants to divert $10-$12,000 to themselves from the public school system for every child that attends. Do you really think the cost to your school district dropped by that amount once you removed your kids from the district. Lets use Geneva School district as an example, according to the Illinois District Report Card: http://webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/searchBySchool.aspx?searchby=schoolName&language=english&year=2012&keyword=geneva&type=card
The instructional expenditure per pupil in 2010-2011 was $6,393. Once you include operations and maintenance, debt service, and transportation the cost per pupil increases to $13,199. Your charter school doesn't relieve the district of those non-instructional costs but it does relieve them of the money to pay for them. Even when you look at the average teacher salary for the district at $75,078 how many students would have to leave before staff could be reduced by a single teacher. Lets say the average elementary class size is 21. Lets say 21 students all from the same age now attend your Charter school and the district can eliminate that $75k position. Your charter school is now collecting $210,000-$252,000 of the districts money in order for the district to save $75k. The numbers don't add up. Also was your property tax bill to your district equal to the $30-$36k your charter school took from them?

I agree with Schlomann's view. I am not against Charter Schools, let's just make sure this one is the very best choice we have. People must face that the internet is changing America whether we like it or not. Soon there will be no printed media of any kind, it has virtually elimianted many jobs in those industries as well as many others. We must all also admit this change may eventually change our entire education system as schools cannot continue to take more tax money to fund themselves and the government can't afford it either. 75 years from now this will be how we educate, without all the overhead costs of school buildings, janitors, school buses, drivers and maintenance costs. Technology is changing the world and taking millions of jobs away from our economy each year. Face it folks, this is the future like it or not. And it's not like our k-12 education system is anywhere near the top when compared to other countries. It is a choice everyone should have especially those in poor districts with bad schools. It's not forced on anyone, but could be a better option for many.

RG,
Thank you for helping to make my point. If you think your property tax bill will be going down because people like Mr. Boyle are sending his kids and your tax dollars to the charter school your sorely mistaken. If anything, its more likely they will go up in order to make up for the lost revenue that is still needed to pay for the cost of running the district.

But you are blaming the Charter School for a tax issue with our current schools they didn't create. You think your taxes won't continue to rise to someday be 90% of your tax bill just to fund the schools and union pensions? We need alternatives for children who are falling through the cracks in public schools. Not everyone can afford private schools either.

I also feel the simple answer is do this under trial agreement for 4-5 years and see how this school does. Never sign up for something you can't fix or get rid of if it's not working or not living up to it's promises. I would also not allow this to be the only online school option that would be allowed. The opportunity for others should not be stopped agreeing to this. It should be a ongoing research project to eventually make it the best offering it can possibly be for the sake of our children.

Gentleman, if you want what "you pay"in taxes to the district to go to pay for "your child" to attend a charter school then that is a completely different argument. At $10-$12, 000 per child now your taking your contribution, my contribution, and every geneva businesses contribution to pay a for profit company to educate your child. How does a "virtual" charter school justify a tuition that exceeds not only the "instructional costs" of all the fox valley public schools but the tution of every private high school in the area? Like Marmion, Rosary, Benet, St. Francis, et al.....

Your kids are also old enough to handle instruction on the computer -- K-12 is aggressive for being able to actually teach foundation -- especially K-3 -- there's no way that set can learn the fundamentals from looking at a screen all day. Your kids, it sounds like, *did* learn those fundamentals somewhere, not online.

Exactly, Oswego Mom - the fundamentals were taught within the "physical presence" of someone, not online. Electric toys are nice supplements, but replacing a flesh and blood teacher or an involved parent [key], nah. Among many other things, social skills are lost.

Chris and Bri Boyle:
In the interest of full disclosure you should say that you are married to Bri Boyle and Bri is the secretary to the board Of Chicago Virtual Charter School, a k12 school. In one of her many responses to a Patch letter on Monday, Bri did say that her position is not a paid position.
Although you apparently live in Chicago you both attended the Jobs with Justice meeting in Geneva on Sunday. A Google search shows that you and Bri have written many letters and rebuttals to Patch in Geneva, Batavia, St Charles, Yorkville, Oswego, Bolingbrook and perhaps other places. Why are you two so dedicated to promoting the K12/ Virtual Learning Solutions charter school application for the Western Suburbs? Do you have a relationship to K12 is more than that of just parents of students? If so will please disclose the full extent of your K12 relationship.

Personally my children were on computers at 2 years old. They did indeed learn a lot from early education software programs which taught them quite a bit as well as knowledge of computers. Sure personal interaction is important but look at our teen culture today with texting and emails. Kids can't even communicate directly already. They fall in love, break up, plan their entire lives today via a smart phone or computer and nobody is trying to correct that. Again you cannot stand in front of a computer and make a speech I will give you that but that doesn't mean a child can't learn by computer as more and more of daily classrooms are in front of computers. Then explain the success of the University of Phoenix and others like that. The argument offshore jobs loss vs loss of jobs because of technology. Almost every printed media (newspaper and magazines) are losing money and going online (look at the Patch!!) and all those jobs in the printing and maintining the machines is gone. Library's will one day be e-books and virtual online depositories. College books are going electronic, online retailers are severely killing the brick and mortor stores because their is virtually no overhead costs. Every Major retailer is online, why? Because it's cheaper, easier and less costs for employees, insurance and computers don't call in sick or take vacations. Automakers build cars with robots instead of people. I beg to differ with your argument. Certain business will benefit like UPS.

But to not believe even in future manufacturing more and more robotics and computer assisted work will eliminate more and more jobs in being blind to technology. The world is changing fast and not that I am all for it, I am not but you can't stop it so I think we must accept it and make sure it doesn't destroy society which it truly could in years to come.

Even look locally in our everyday lives at the virtual elimination of travel agencys except for a few and really only business travel is keeping them alive but for how long, airports you now can check in online or at a kiosk without human interaction. Online stock trading is huge and so much cheaper, Brokers are slowing going away as are the need of local insurance agents with virtually everything you need online. Then look at other countries and their technology we don't even have here yet but will someday. Parking garages that automatically lift and park your car then retreieve it back to you by techonology and automation not a single human involved. Then Google has their car that drives itself.

Mr Oneal,
I have no problem with anyone having a choice. I don't even have a problem with a voucher system that allows people to apply some or even all of what they pay in poperty tax to the schools toward tuition at a K-12 virtual charter school. But $10-$12, 000 is an extreme instructional expense for a virtual school that is not paying for bricks and mortar, transportatikn costs, or bond
debt. Please explain to me how losing one student would save the district $10-$12, 000 in taxes that would now go to the charter school. It doesnt work that way. Please refer to my previous post. The number of students leaving would have to much larger for any savings to be realized and at that point the money leaving would far exceed the money being saved

my other concern, with respect to costs, is *where* the teachers, administration - *live*. Why? Well, the money spent right now - goes directly back into our local economy. The bus drivers, the librarians, teachers, nurses -- all live and work in our community. They support the boosters that raise money for football. They bring their families to Culvers nights. With the K12 group - where will the money go? Can we follow the money trail anywhere ? Where is the HQ? Virginia? How is it good for OUR economy - and OUR taxes - to be funneled away from our already hurting (financially) state ??? There has to be an opportunity here for an IL company -- to work WITH 308 and surrounding districts -- to fill this demand. The lesson plans are definitely available. Companies (textbook, content, software firms) have been creating them for years -- and have developed content management and delivery mechanisms as well. It's more than just *choice* and *future* - it's our community!

Wow, there are a whole lot of comments flying around. The first I'd like to address is that Bri and I have no vested interest in whether or not Fox Valley approves a Virtual Charter of any kind. This is an education option for your children that presents education in a completely different format, which may be an advantage for some children, it's an option, and your decision. For me, I finally saw my tax dollars at work for me, new computers, new books, new supplies. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just passing along a personal experience. Take it for what it's worth. We pay taxes just like everyone else and I see that educating my kids, their happy and well above the norm across the country. Where the money goes after it's in the system, I can care less, my kids are the benefactors.

Mr. Boyle
Since you have personal knowledge of this K12 virtual school system can you give us a better idea of why it would cost $10-$12, 000 for a single student to attend?. It is nice that you feel the taxes you are paying are benefitting your children but with 3 kids in the system at $30-$36, 000 in tuition, my guess is that there are a lot of other people in your town paying taxes towards your kids' tuition that are not receiving the residual benefit of higher property values or might even be suffering because the local district has $36, 000 less to work with now that money comes out of their operating budget

@Greg O'Neil - I'm guessing that there aren't many 308 employees who live in Virginia. Whether it's a morning coffee or an afternoon snack or bringing their families to events -- if you live within commuting distance, you live in the community. If you live in Southern IL or podunk IL off the grid, under the K12 guidelines, provided you are a qualified teacher, you could be hired by one of their HR people. That's not nearly the same as living within a commuting distance. And when you live within a commuting distance -the money follows - as much as it does the child.

Greg O Neil, what do you mean by this comment?
"I would expect to see a large increase in homeschoolers in Oswego. They will now be able to utilize their tax dollars to benefit their own children. "

How will that happen?

RG: people who homeschool will now be able to provide their kids with free laptops and printers (if the virtual charter school goes through); they will be able to use this school, together with their current situation [homeschooling] to create a dynamite program for their kids. Sincerely, the homeschool community seems like the natural benefactor of all of this. Do homeschool parents presently get to take any of their tax dollars back (if I follow how the charter program works, they ought to be allowed!) It's the company I'm opposed to - and the process they've used - not the concept in its entirety.

Greg O'Neil and Thomas R, I think this might be an important point - "for the kids"
From the Florida Times Union :

"K12 has come under fire for high student-teacher ratios and poor student performance in Arizona, Georgia and Tennessee. A July 2012 study by the National Education Policy Center at the University of Colorado found that K12’s students fell further behind in reading and math scores than traditional students."

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2012-10-06/story/investigation-under-way-k12-virtual-school-used-northeast-florida

oops, here's another one

http://fcir.org/2012/09/25/k12-stories-have-nationwide-impact/

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/09/15/3004668/online-classes-are-virtually-overloaded.html

should we taxpayers or our District really DIVE right in on an operation that is being investigated with this many problems ? really ? if so, I think there's a bridge we'd like to sell you in Brooklyn...

RG
I sent just under $5, 000 in property taxes to Geneva School District this past year. I spend just over $10, 000 to send my child to a private high school in the area. How can I get the Geneva School District to cut a check to my childs high school to cover the cost of her tuition like they would if she went to this charter school. It would be like winning the lotto. I pay $5k but get the district to cough up $10k. Too bad I dont have more kids like Mr. Boyle. I still pay $5k the district pays $30k. Sweet deal.

sweet deal....not - I don't know about you, but I don't want 308 to be a headline :
Portland Press Herald September 12, 2012
" A company seeking to operate a full-time virtual charter school in Maine is under investigation in Florida over allegations that it used uncertified teachers and tried to get employees to assist in concealing that fact from school district officials"

http://www.pressherald.com/news/controversy-deepens-over-virtual-schools_2012-09-12.html

For a virtual charter school to cost $10-$12, 000 a year in tution is the computer and printer you receive gold plated?

Patricia H,

Here is the article I saw the $10-$12,000 figure from http://geneva.patch.com/articles/on-line-charter-school-wants-tax-dollars-from-geneva-17-other-fox-valley-districts

here is statement:
"Funding for the charter school would come by transferring the per-pupil expenditure tuition from the public school. Geneva officials said Monday night that the total would be in the range of $10,000 to $12,000 per pupil."

Hm. Has anyone else besides me, seen the latest story out of the UK where some school(s) is forbidding children to have "best friends"?. It is supposedly detrimental to there well being. You know, in case there is a falling out or such. Unbelievable. If you doubt what I'm saying, just google it. I think I first saw it on Drudge yesterday. And, also, Oswego mom, since you have so many facts to toss into this discussion, in the interest of full disclosure, do you have any vested interest in seeing that the public schools stay in the money making business? Are you a teacher, or married to, or related to a teacher in the public school? Are you involved with teachers' union in some way? Are you a janitor or bus driver? Seriously, why is your interest is stopping change so strident? In the interest of full disclosure, I am not involved in any way with any private school. I am old, have grandkids doing wonderfully in public schools, and yet, being old, have to watch out for every penny I spend. I have no future earnings to look forward to. Just wondering..... in the interest of full disclosure........

Kibitzer, the lady's got a good point. Look at some of those links I left up [varied sources all saying the same thing over and over again]. It's hard to fight the facts. And no, I'm not a teacher, but like you, I want to make sure my bucks aren't shanghai'd by some fly-by-night P.T. Barnum group. By the way, in terms of our taxes, are you for Lawson, Volpe or Parr ? just wonderin'

Patricia H,
According to the Illinois School Report Card http://webprod.isbe.net/ereportcard/publicsite/searchBySchool.aspx?searchby=districtName&language=english&year=2012&keyword=303&type=card&rcds=310453030
District 303's instructional expenditure per pupil for 2010-2011 was $6,647 per pupil. That is still less than even your $8,000 per pupil figure. I have yet to hear anyone, with knowledge of this "virtual" charter school, explain why it would require a tuition that far exceeds what is currently being spent at traditional brick and mortar schools. I have shopped for new computers recently and saying that receiving a new computer and printer and textbooks would justify the numbers being thrown around just doesn't seem to cut it.

Patricia H,
Actually if you crunch the numbers from the article you referenced earlier you would see that it is the property tax payers of the local districts holding the bag.
"His group (K12) expects to pull a minimum of 450 students at both the high school and elementary level from 18 total school districts in the Fox Valley to make the school viable." 450/18 districts = 25 students per district $8,000 x 25 students = $200,000 each district sends to the virtual charter school. Pulling those 25 students from both elementary and high school levels means a loss of just 2 students per grade level. That is not nearly enough to cut staff or reduce bus routes or shutter a school. So in the end each of the 18 districts loses $200,000 of revenue without reducing their instructional or operating costs or paying down debt by even $1. But my guess is the parents who want to send their kids to the "virtual" school won't be too concerned of those consequences because they win at the expense of everyone else. What I think is more fair is let the district refund to the parents of the virtual school kids their portion of their taxes that go to the district and they would have to make up the difference if it doesn't cover what the virtual school is charging whether its $8,000/$10,000/$12,000. My guess under that system they would be more concerned about the $3.9 million dollar salary of the Virtual School's CEO.

Ah, no, ayar..... I don't live in Oswego. But the town I do live in is involved in possibly having a part in a charter school. I don't think this one will get any votes. I don't know that any charter school will get enough support to start up. In this area of discussion, I mean. I did look at the link from Brian Doyle posted yesterday early, about the status of some schools as far as progress being made. If I remember what I read correctly, (and remember, I AM old!), I thought it looked like Oswego and the town I live in weren't really up to par. I need to look again. I may have my links confused. We older people can do that occasionally.

I went back to Mr. Doyle's link, and clicked around, (we old people like to do that....inspite of viruses, etc.....), and found the part that showed Oswego East Highschool is not making "adequate yearly progress" and is on the State's "Academic watch". This from the NIU Interactive Report Card, updated on 3-20-13. My town's school is not doing well, either. There is a ton of info on here, but I grow weary. Probably it all boils down to everyone wanting the best for their family, and in too many ways, the time spent by the kids while under a school's supervision (charter or not), is time wasted.

I finished my comment but it disappeared. Rats! I went to Mr. Doyle's link which is NIU Interactive Report Card. I may have read things wrong, but it looks like one particular school, Oswego East Highschool, did not make Adequate yearly progress, and is on the State Academic watch list. So is the school in my town. It looks like a lot of schools are in that boat, charter or not. I don't mention OEH, only that is one I saw. This report was updated 3-20-13. Now, I'll see if this machine transfers my thoughts. Stupid machines...... (it couldn't be me....)

Oh, swell, they moved my comment over here from the other place I was checking out. I thought it was lost. I'll get whiplash going back and forth. All you people who really understand computers and these sites for comments, will understand why this oldster shouldn't even use one. We might not make sense. Harumpf! and Phooey!

I'm just uncomfortable with the fact that this is a "Definitely for Profit" corporation that is selling education to K-12. There are other charter schools that have been working towards including virtual classrooms but at a lower cost. Bruce and Diana Rauner of the Rauner Foundation have long advocated and supported their charter schools and have demonstrated that the charter school concept can be more effective than traditional schools (yes, some truly suck though) and are researching the virtual reality classrooms for the 7-12 level. The idea that K-6 would be suitable for virtual classrooms does not address the extended daily socialization factors that are necessary for early child development.
It seems that Dist 308 would be justified in exploring the costs of integrating an in house virtual education system rather than farm it out to outside commercial contracting.

I find it interesting that if I were to enroll my student out of pocket into the k12 inc school my costs would be the following:
Annual tuition*:
$4,995 (K–5)
$5,995 (6–8)
$6,995 (9–12)

http://www.k12.com/int/admissions/general-tuition#.UUxmvRy0em0

I wonder why they need to charge $8,000 per students coming from our districts.

The K12 virtual system seems to be a repeated failure.

http://www.pressherald.com/news/studies-existing-full-time-virtual-schools-earn-poor-grades_2012-09-02.html?pageType=mobile&id=1

Convicted felon- Michael Milken
Co-Founder of Largest Provider of Online Education
K-12 Inc. , America

http://www.historiann.com/2011/09/22/k12-inc-online-schools-12-graduation-rates-and-0-accountability-awesome/

I don't think parents pull their kids form public schools just for the sake of it. They do it because for whatever reason, it's not working well for their child. Not all kids have the same experience in school. Some are endlessly bullied and picked on to the point of severe emotional distress. Others have illnesses or disabilities that make it very difficult. Some are hanging around the "wrong crowd" and will end up in trouble if the parents don't intervene. Socialization is doing them more harm than good and the school can't begin to address these issues. Some of these kids can be disruptive and diminish the learning experience for others. They also tend to take far more of the schools resources than the average child so the 8,000 and the rest of the financial comparisons are meaningless. Americans value freedom above all other rights, and freedom to have a parent, not a bureaucrat, make these decisions trumps all other arguments to the contrary.

Well said Greg. My wife and I had very good reasons why we chose to send our child to a private school instead of the local public school. I just want to know how I can get the school district, that I pay property tax to, to pay for the cost of my child's tuition like they would for the "virtual" school. Why should we be punished because we both have to work to make ends meet and can't have one of us home to school our child. If it is all about choices. Why favor only some and not all. I agree Americans value freedom but they also value how their tax dollars get spent. If I have to pay for your choice you should have to pay for mine.

I agree that while your children are in school, you should be able to direct your education tax dollars where ever you like. This could be the first step in that direction. I personally believe public schools would be far better off if they had to compete for students (and dollars). That said I wouldn't deny the free choices to others simply because they are not available to you. Even with both parents working many families simply can not afford private schools, and public schools are a bad fit for their children. We'll all be better off if people have more choices, not less. Remember, many of the virtual attendees have some significant issues that required many times the resources as the typical child, thus the savings to all taxpayers and a benefit to struggling families, its a win-win for everyone.

To this we both can agree Greg. Like I said if you are going to make the public pay for a parents choice to go virtual then you should also pay for a parents choice to go private. Let the tax dollars flow!!!!

Greg,
Another point that has yet to be made is that many people who prefer homeschooling their children are already doing so and would not be lessening the burden on the district since their kids were never enrolled to begin with. For example I have neighbors who homeschooled all 5 of their children up to high school. They never attended the local public school. They went to a private Christian high school. Under this new proposal they would have cost the taxpayers $40,000 a year without ever reducing the costs to the district they never attended. All costs no savings.

I think we agree more than we disagree, but I don't consider taking a familys taxes for education while their own children receive no benefits to be "a benefit". It's a windfall (nice way of saying ripoff) for someone who chooses another path for their family, including you. We should all have a voucher to spend where ever we choose while we have school aged children. Once they are grown, we can then start contributing to the "public school system. That seems fair AND it would actually improve public education at the same time. Choice and competition always improve services. Monopolys destroy them, probably why they are illegal in the private sector. We need more choices, not less.

Well Thomas, this is probably going to blow your mind...sorry. To be honest, I really don't care about the money. What I care about are the children. I want our public education system to be the best, so people don't have a reason to send their children to a private school. Why do individuals send their children to private or home school? The answers that come to mind are "religious education" and " a better education!". Shouldn't we all have that right, or is that only for the wealthy....think I already know the answer to that. I didn't see a reason for YOUR choice of private?
My obsession with our education system started a couple years ago (well after my children were out of the system) when I learned about Robotics in which some of my neighborhood children are involved. I was so excited our schools offered a program like that, until I learned..... they didn't. They weren't even providing an area at the school to do it. Seriously? Couldn't that huge field house have sacrificed a little space for education. How wonderful that parents volunteered, children spent their "free time" learning and having fun, and those horrible profit making corporations donated money.

Recently I learned that our state of the art school had NO computers in the classrooms (except maybe the teachers, which sounds like it's used as a high-tech "overhead"). REALLY???? I couldn't believe it and had to ask again...you mean you have "no" computers in the classrooms...laptops...tablets....nothing for students to use for research/learning...? Originally I thought the schools just didn't know how to use technology to teach, never in a million years did I think they didn't even have the technology. I asked if the teacher ever Googles anything on her computer; the answer was "No". My chin hit the floor, and my blood pressure hit the ceiling.
Do you know what my adult children say when I can't figure something out "Just Google it"...and I do and usually with very little research I get my answer. Or, I'll ask how on earth they figured something out... Googled it! And we have NO STUDENT COMPUTERS in the classrooms? WHY! is my only question? (By the way I have no stock in Google....wish I did)

So, here is how I see it. We have a government monopoly that has NO competition to keep it state-of-the-art. We put on a good show from the outside...big Field House, Gorgeous New Theater, and I've heard talk of Astroturf....(not to be a broken record) but no computers. Whosever deciding on the curriculum and how it is taught needs to get with the times. Technology is the future of teaching and the Charters know it. They have whole curriculums (which can probably be purchased by schools) developed around technology which are interactive and even fun. Our public schools are teaching in the dark ages and it is NOT the fault of the teachers. They better get with the times or they will go the way of the dinosaurs...and those horrible corporations and CEOs will be rolling in $$$.

And yes Thomas, you should be able to choose, as I think we all should.

@Patricia H. Technology is the tool, NOT an educator. Technology is the future of teaching ? not so much as another tool like having a calculator in math class. Speaking of, funny story about that. Ever go into a fast food joint during a power out and see how fast the kids crowd around the older adult with the pencil and paper to figure out the taxes for them ? is that because they needed TECHNOLOGY to show them how ?. NO. it's because they became too dependent on using calculators as a CRUTCH. really THINK about it. In the end, it's the quality of the teacher that pans out. And it ain't always the fresh-out-of-college newbie who never taught before either. And the sad thing is, the management and other higher ups KNOW it. but they want to go on the cheap. With our tax dollars. And that's the sad thing. It ultimately hurts the kids education in the end. Instead we buy play toys like wireless access on the school buses. THINK about it.