Geneva Teachers - look at all these comments..........Do you think you have the community behind you? Better think again.

I agree with Harry Stanley. I hope the Geneva teachers are looking at these comments and do not make a huge mistake. If the teachers walk, I would urge the School Board to give them a few days, no more than a week, and if no final agreement is reached, to terminate negotiations and begin the process of hiring permanent replacements. I know too many people in the community who have lost jobs or suffered pay decreases to keep or get a job to condone teachers walking out on the students in the middle of a semester in the face of an offer that promises them continued jobs with no decrease in pay. We have many great teachers in Geneva who I respect tremendously and I hope they make the right decision here because none of the teachers, including the great ones, should fool themselves into thinking they are irreplaceable, especially in this economy.

Well said, Martin.

OK, GEA, now you have really done it! It's got to be the end for you when Jeff Ward comes to agree with what I've been saying since day one.

We'd love to love our teachers, baby -- but they have to be smarter than a fifth grader. So far, not much.

But, I have changed my mind a little, on one point. I think that now IS the time for those teachers who still think GEA are correct in their methods to stand by their union, march in the streets, write urgent letters-to-the-editor, ad nauseum. That way when a wholesale teacher-replacement by the BoE lets us start with a clean slate, we won't have to wonder who it is that believes in stabbing their neighbors in the back (pocket) in order to get a little sweeter deal for themselves.

So come on, GEA loyalists, say it loud and say it proud, "To hell with the neighbors, I'm gettin' mine!" There you go, now. Just keep repeating that to yourselves, over and over and over....

It is important for the public to acknowledge the difference between not wanting to agree to a one-sided bad deal (which the GEA is demanding) and respect for teachers.

This is not about respect for teachers... this is about being shoved in the face with unrealistic demands and this is about declaring that we will not accept those terms. We will pay a great salary and way-above average benefits to our teachers - but not when they make the kinds of demands that force pilfering a surplus fund that could be used to pay down debt, and not when they are asking for raises in excess of 2-3x the rate of inflation, and not when they are demanding to lie about their last year's salaries and force the Board to agree to the lie, in order to provide them with even better pension benefits that already are higher than average. And the idea of forcing non-union teachers to pay "union dues" is something I hope the Board never agrees to - if they are forcing that stuff down the Board's throats, bring in the replacements - and the community will support the Board. Even if it takes a couple months to complete.

Tom,

I can answer that one. There are so many unemployed teachers out there that school districts can easily get certified teachers for non-certified positions. And those unemployed certified teachers are willing to take any position just to work.

Jeff

Tom, you continue to make yourself appear so ill-informed. Are you kidding me with your question? Jeff W. is absolutely correct (wait, did I really just write that? LOL) BECAUSE there are SO MANY qualified teachers unable to get a full-time teaching job, they will take anything they can get in order to get their foot in the door. Zip up, Buddy Boy, all you do is throw low blows to people. This was one of the most ignorant comments by far. Again, you claim to be in the education field? Eeek!

Tom, are you for real?? You are seriously out of touch. It's hard to believe you work in education.........

The only reason is anti-competitive monoplistic actions taken by the union and its leadership. Using tactics of racketeering, making threats ( in writing, and with picket signs and threats to those that cross- verbally) which would be illegal in any other capacity.

This is not bullying- bullying is done to instill fear. This is racketeering - used to instill threats, use coercion, and under-handed demands made with criminal intent ( manipulating retirement pensions by lying about last year's salaries is fraud,no matter how much lipstick is put on the pig).

I hope we have the sense to prevent teachers from picketing, in the same manner that students are prevented from political displays at school grounds.

We can't fire them

"......if Geneva teachers do not get fired because of the strike (if it happens of course) many will leave in the next school year to seek "greener" and also friendlier pastures."

That's baloney. Geneva teachers have a cushy job and they know it. Some of them.......SOME, not all........are spoiled rotten and go through their day doing the least possible, sort of like on auto-pilot. They're not about to leave and run the risk of joining the ranks of the unemployed.

No they can't be fired, but they can be replaced which is essentially the same thing.

In today's Chronicle, Brenda Schory wrote an excellent piece on exactly how it w ould work:

http://www.kcchronicle.com/2012/10/31/district-304-cant-fire-striking-teachers-but-they-can-be-replaced/aipkamx/

Jeff

@Jill: Don’t be so naïve…. That system works both ways .. . many teachers also leave OTHER school districts to take advantage of District 304’s generous pay and benefits package. Keep in mind, We’re all replaceable, even those in the teaching profession. Bring on the strike! It might be alittle disruptive initially, but we’ll manage.

Jill - are the ones in the North Shore happy? You said they are making close to double what they made. For the added drivetime, they were rewarded. We do not offer those salaries, nor do we plan to.

Did Geneva education go down when they left to go to the North Shore? Clearly not, according to the GEA's assessments. Why would we expect anything different this time? We don't.

This is the world everyone else lives in - it is not unfair - it is called real world. The demands proposed by the GEA seemed to aske for increases in pay that were above rates of inflation and more than needed, and they suggested funding these raises by using surplus funds. If the raises were more in line, the funding came from a different source, and the demnads to lie about the final years of pay were revised so that retirement benefits were based on real pay earned, then there could be a deal. Demanding that the Board lie about pay is a real slimy demand, one that should be considered illegal and fraudulent.

They arent going anywhere - if they leave they lose senority, Job Security ( tenure) they will have to apply for jobs that 400 other teachers are applying to and they will also lose the opportunity to work in a great district. No one is leaving...........Start hiring replacements and watch and see how fast they cross the picket lines.

Greg....the GEA only wants to pontificate what works to their advantage. We aren't supposed to look at the entire balance sheet. Our legislature in Springfield does the very same thing and look at where that has gotten this state. I am surprised the Quinn & Crooks Crowd haven't imposed a tax on those leaving the state for greener pastures.

The GEA is tired of listening to our "sob stories". We are supposed to go boo-hoo-hoo somewhere else. Just try telling the GEA and see where it gets you.

I agree Rich! These teachers have been spoiled far too long. It's time that they understand that while we value their work, this line in the sand is not working.

Dave-I think you need to re-read the offers. They ARE quite a bit off and the Union just doesn't know when to quit. Each time they put something out, it makes all of us scratch our heads in disbelief that they have the audacity to continue to pummel us in the gut. I think the BOE should pack up and close the door on any future talks. They have been offered a super fair and generous package and the union should run with it before they create even more animosity within this community.

Dave, are you sure you're talking about the same Geneva everybody else is? Maybe you're confused with Geneva, Idaho, or Geneva, Alabama...............or Switzerland?

Finally, some empirical validation for the outstanding contributions made by the PARENTS of the students. Intuitively, we already understood this to be the case.
http://ideas.time.com/2012/10/24/the-single-largest-advantage-parents-can-give-their-kids/

Don't forget the request for 3 years of pension spiking. I did nto see that mentioned in the union response. Have they dropped that obscene request?

OMGoodness...here we go again. The poor DEAD horse continues to be beaten. Put it to rest. PLENTY of money? What part of 309 million dollars in debt...in the red...don't you understand??? Trust me...we've all been told...over and over and over how hard the teachers work. Guess what...we can tell you over and over and over that many of us work equally as hard. So, please consider that before you slap us in the face...AGAIN! Sheesh! Where is Jeff Ward...I need him to explain this to Amy, although I'm pretty sure it will fall upon deaf ears.

Amy,

I want to be clear here as have most of the commentors. We understand there is a real distinction between the teachers union and the teachers themselves.

Most folks here are taking issue with the union and not the teachers. I believe (and I have very good reason to believe this) the teachers' patience with the union is wearing very thin.

Jeff

Jeff, teachers are supposed to be intelligent, level-headed people. I'm sure Amy is a teacher, will soon graduate w/a degree in education, or has a family member working for 304. The Union is reaching desperation and they are going to pull anyone and everyone they can to represent them..even in the picket line..just watch who joins them. Don't you think it's about time the teachers who are losing faith w/their Union should speak up, NOW? What are they waiting for if it is indeed true that they are wearing thin. IF there is any respect for the Union (which I highly doubt) left and for the teachers who support them, it's going to soon be in the red just like the debt. This is total game-playing now...it's a tug of war...and it's pathetic that, in the end, the students are the ones who are going to miss school. It's going to get very ugly now and I hope the Union will be happy with the resentment the community will have towards this one year, five years, ten years after all is said and done. Trust me, this won't be forgotten anytime soon. Perhaps Mrs. Young, along w/her husband, who together make over 200k per year, can forget about it while ripping the meat from the fat pig and laugh about it during their retirement while, but I sure won't. Stand up BOE and Geneva...the community's image is at stake. They can't and won't accept an offer now...they WANT to strike...face it...it would tarnish their mob record not to at this point! Sick and shameful!

amy wrote:

"...the school district has plenty of money to settle this contract in a fair manner for the teachers and community."

No amy. We don't.
If you have 10,000 in credit card bills and find a hundred bucks in your coat pocket - it doesn't mean you have 'plenty of money'.

Yes Amy, the school district has the money to settle this fairly. The BOE has made that fair offer and the union has failed to accept it. What the union is proposing instead is not a fair offer as our district can't afford it. It appears that the problem is with the union's idea of "fair".

Amy you need to get up to speed. If teachers are taking clases in the summer it is because they are going to be getting paid more money. It is not for the love of the kids. I assure you. That is quite evident in the amount of teachers we have with masters degrees in administration.

I am speaking for myself. I am who I am because of my parents. Throughout my school years I had some good teachers and some bad but never someone as nuturing as a parent my parents.

A lot of us who have made comments on the Patch do still have kids in school. My children started Kindergarten here in Geneva. They have had some good teachers and some bad teachers. However, they have never had a teacher that has taken on a parent role.

Teachers are human beings just like everyone else. They do not need to be elevated to a superior status.

Sue J- Congrats for being like me. I know that hurts a bit, but we both care tremendously about our kids and love them very much. However, not everyone is like that. To many kids do look up to their teachers for a friendly ear. Many many kids do rely on a teacher for that additional support that they may need. Just because your kids have loving parents doesn't mean all kids are in that same situation.

" I feel a little bad for the individual teachers who are caught in the middle of this. Their union leadership is leading them down a path they will probably regret. "

I get the feeling this march is being led by the old-guard union members, just trying to milk the last dime out of the system before they retire.

Too bad they're leaving scorched earth behind for the teachers who still have their careers in front of them

Tom,
For a guy from a different district you seem to be way too involved in this debate. What the GEA and you seem to be missing is that the status quo that you're trying to protect is not a compromise and is not acceptable. Things are changing because they have to. There is no other choice. The accounting gimmicks and word games have played themselves out and now we're all faced with the consequences. One of the most supportive communities in the area has asked for some relief and the GEA has decided that it was more important to stand on it's principles. All it did was mobilize a community against the union. I think they will come to regret their decision.

Tired you made a comment somewhere but now I cannot find it about how the teachers have to contribute 9.4% to their pension and don't get social security. I don't think you will find many of us out there that feel sorry for them. Do you know that for their contribution of 9.4% they get to receive 75% of their ending salary for life? That is a great return. No one with a 401K could get that.

Please if you are for the teachers and it is okay that you are don't try to paint the picture that they underpaid and can't get social security. It is not going to work with too many people.

<i>Given that during the negotiation Mr. Grosso himself went on a 2 week fishing trip to Canada.</i>

C- False equivalency. Unlike the GEA president, the BOE does not pay for Mr. Grosso's vacation. lol

@Jeff, The GEA president per the press release missed the negations in July. During her summer vacation. Why is the BOE held to a different standard here? This should be a mute point. The BOE keeps trying to assert the notion that they have been willing to bargain since February as if the GEA had been planning since February to go on strike.

Here are some answers to your questions from my view: unless you were a bond expert, you didn't realize the board exceeded the debt limit by taking out premium bonds in 2007. Board members couldn't answer questions asked of them and they had to bring in the bond representative just a few of months ago. The inflated numbers were not uncovered until early 2012. Nothing could be done 5 years after the fact and when everyone "forgot where the numbers came from." St. Charles has minimal debt due to over building - their taxpayers kept rejecting building referendum. Watch the board meeting videos, Barry Bourdage has questioned almost every technology spend and has been told, "we know what we are doing." Barry is an expert in technology and has offered his time, he has been told they don't need his help.
Mr. Grosso's vacation did not interfere with the non-negotiations that have been happening since February.
This issue is not about teachers, it is about providing an affordable education to the children of Geneva. If costs are not managed now, there will be bigger problems by 2020. I read that 57 teachers will be affected by the 6% salary spike. If that means that 57 teachers intend to retire within 4 years then 57 positions are replaceable. In every industry everyone and anyone is replaceable. For someone to say a teacher is irreplaceable is plain silly. The Geneva School District will not fall off the face of the earth when those 57 retirees are replaced.

To sit here and say that the teachers GOING ON STRIKE IS in the best interest of the kids is appalling.

There you go Tired, I fixed it for you.

Are they on strike right now? No, has the district waited 10 days to meet about the last negotiation session yes. The BOE is not looking out for the best interest of the kids either, they are looking out for a minority of voters who are complaining about the taxes that they agreed to in the referendum.

Tired-----Your posted article that was written by the secretary treasurer of the IEA(TeachersUnion) who just happens to sit on the pension board would have to be considered a conflict of interest. If I am not mistaken many years ago in Wisconsin the state politicians tried to raid the teachers pension fund in Wisconsin. At the time the teachers took legal action against the State to stop this proposed raid because they knew what could happen down the road. They stopped the action dead in its tracks and now their pension fund is quite solvent and almost fully funded even in these tough investment times. My question to you is did the IEA( Teachers Union) do the same in Illinois for its members at the time the pension raiding started.

@TOC...let's agree that a strike would not be in the children's interest, ok? We can debate who to blame separately.

TOC, wow a minority of voters? All I see is a majority of voters against the Union and their greed. Are you sure you are talking about Geneva?

Step and lane is a guaranteed raise not based on performance at all. How is that fair to the tax payers? Do you get a raise just for showing up? I don't know anyone who does. How does that enable us not to compensate the poor performing teachers? Or the teachers that put in minimal effort?

They should start speaking up. I haven't heard one word from a teacher against the union. There sure were a lot of them at the BOE meetings supporting themselves and the union.

My son told me that yesterday everyone of his teachers wore the green shirt yesterday. His is in HS. His teachers are mix of very tenured to newly tenured.

Jeff I think that there are more teachers out there for this than you know. If not, why are they still wearing the green?

Sue,

In a perfect world you are absolutely correct, but I speak up all the time - the mayor, public works, Swedish days, downtown's potential demise - and where does it get me? I have to wear a disguise everywhere I go (not really, but I'm very grateful I'm not easily recognized).

Not only are they contractually (to some degree) prevented from doing so, A teacher who spoke out now - before an actual strike comes to pass - would be committing professional suicide.

In fact I'm surprised I've heard what I have. Remember rebellions take time. And the time for unhappy teachers to talk will be when a strike galvanizes the one who are fed up with the unions.

Patience, young padawan!

Jeff

Jeff, Geneva is ticked because while the majority of us have devoted our time, resources and money to any teacher who asked for it...and we did so w/a smile. We were happy to help. We didn't stick signs in our yards saying, "we love ourselves because we work with teachers to form good relationships." So, if you're going to make a point about us bashing teachers, then why not also make it a point that we are ALL WELL AWARE of what quality teachers do while teaching. Why is it okay for them to shove it in our face and down our throats about how hard they work. WE FLIPPIN GET IT. We work hard, too and there was a time where we would bend over backwards to help. I'm not so sure many of us will do it anymore. Union or not, we've had enough of being bullied. ANY teacher has the capability to speak up if they think they are being wronged by the union. Oh, and Carol Young IS a teacher. She is the biggest "shover" of all.

Julie,

I have an answer and I'm going to try to be tactful here (please don't faint). But there is a group out here that has a habit of bashing teachers at every turn. And that extra loud minority of voices always seems to rise above the rest.

As a columnist, I've had previous dealings with Ms. Young and let me just say it was a frightening experience. Far too often, the people who manage to get themselves into o positions of power are the last people who that should be in those positions.

Now take that oil and water mixture, shake it really well, and you have our current situation.

Then there's this - and I only mean it as a teaching moment. But most of the folks here on Patch who call on dissident teachers to speak out don't even use their real or full names. Something about the pot and kettle thing comes to mind.

An individual can turn around on a dime. It takes time for a group to change their mindset. Patience!

Jeff

Jeff, I understand. I'm just truly frustrated with this whole situation. Oh, and I don't use my last name because of teachers like CY...who I know without a doubt would treat my kid differently if she knew I didn't agree w/her..even if she said she wouldn't. Some teachers would and some wouldn't. THAT is the truth.

Julie,

As a Zen master would say, I admire your capacity to answer your own question!

Jeff

Jeff - it's well known that you have a personal problem with Bob McQuillan. Don't let that cloud your reasoning. TaxFacts has put the information out there so the community can see how much they've been spending, how much more we will be spending and what we're getting for our money.
If it weren't for the efforts of TaxFacts, we probably would still be unaware of the issues surrounding the district, and woefully unprepared when that debt service ramps up in a couple of years.

Every 'non-scientific' poll as well as anecdotal data from conversations tell me 85%+ of Geneva is firmly against the demands of the GEA.

In the words of The Who - "We're not gonna take it!"

Mike,

Again, I will laud those folks to the day I die for preaching the fiscal gospel of truth. I've said it many times before.

But the damage their delivery does and has done far outweighs any good they've managed to accomplish.

Jeff

I'd like to follow w/the Quiet Riot version of, "We're not going to take it". We need that scary lead fella at the next meeting for some intermission entertainment!

Julie,

We're Not Gonna Take it is actually by Twisted Sister and the scary lead singer is Dee Snider.

And let me tell ya, if Dee Snider is showin' up at the next board meeting I'll be there!

Jeff

Jeff, really? are they one in the same? Could have swown it was Quiet Riot. But hey, If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm not the head-banging type, but I did love that song. It made me feel powerful..you know...like all 16 year olds!!!

Julie,

A little known fact about me is I have 5,000 LPs and 3,000 CDs. And if my wife ever tells me it's them or her, I'll miss her.

Quiet Riot's claim to fame was a cover of Cum on Feel the Noize originally written by the British hard rock group Slade. Quiet Riot's most famous member was guitarist Randy Rhoads who went on to play with Ozzy Osbourne until he died in a 1992 plane crash.

Rhoads is one of my favorite guitarists and Osbourne's Crazy Train, on which Rhoads played, is one of my favorite songs. And come to think of it, it describes the current situation pretty well.

The cross dressing Dee Snider fronted Twisted Sister and, if you recall, he, Frank Zappa and John Denver took on the PMRC (Parents Music Resource Cente) and Tipper Gore when the wanted to put content warnings on music.

If you ever have a music question, as Leonard Cohen once sang, I'm your man.

Jeff

Jeff I understand not speaking up vocally but there are some non vocal things they could have done (I am referring to those teachers that are opposed to the Union's actions, if there are any). First and foremost they could stop wearing green. Also, they don't need to attend the BOE meetings. And lastly, the could have not voted for the notice to strike.

Then why are the continuing to wear the green shirts? Apparently there were a lot of them at the HS yesterday. Don't be so naive!

If this the next strategy now? Since there isn't the community support they thought they need to change the strategy to say it's the Union not the teachers. I am assuming since the Union filed a notice to strike the teachers that are members of the Union had to vote on that. Seems like they would need a majority vote, correct? As it has already been stated on about 10% of teachers are not in the Union. So the conclusion that I have to draw from this is that the majority of teachers are for this. If not, tell Carol Young to stop this!

There are some misdirected comments here, yes. But the GEA demand for more money is what creates disrespect, to the degree there is any. Disrespect for the teachers themselves is minimal.

The personal disparagements come from a few who seem to know only that mode of discourse. If teachers let those few cheap-shot artists form teachers' view of the community's respect for them, that would be a surprise. I think the teachers are more mature than that, and more insightful -- most of them.

But disrespect for the union isn't even maxed-out yet. It's the extent to which teachers have failed to rein-in the union that makes the community nervous about who their teachers really are.

Look at the big picture folks. Our state legislature for a very long time has mined, cultivated and nutured the problems we now see on a local level. It isn't going to get any better and this is a major failing of the GEA to understand. The GEA doesn't want to understand this because it is not practiced protocol; and theGEA is only an underling tied to the NEA/IEA that could care less about our community and is more concerned about presevering political posturing with Springfield.

And it is comments like this that the step and lane process needs to stay. Who are you to decide who should be paid what? Who are you to think that one is more important than the other? You ask the math teacher if they want to teach art and see what they say. Why would ask why the one first grade teacher makes more than the other? It is called years of experience. I am sure you don't want the new guy where you work making more than you do, would you? This is exactly why the union is holding fast. I am starting to think that people who are so against the teachers are just jealous that they don't teach.

@ Cody - it's simply not possible to me to endorse a system that would result in the Drivers Ed teacher being the most highly compensated educator in our entire school district. If the guy had 100 years of experience and a doctorate in Drivers Ed I can't believe that our community would say that he is the most valued educator in our district. The system is disfunctional and needs to be fixed. I certainly understand that experience has value but the current system doesn't reward talent or performance - it rewards length of service and education credits.

Hey...Cody is new. Could it really be btown95 who teaches at Williamsburg??? JEFF WARD....where is your response to Cody's post? Since you let us know not to talk ill of the teachers, how about the teacher's speaking poorly of us? If you say that you don't think some of them are teachers then that would be as slimy as what just happened in Libya. What do you say? (Oh and thanks for all of the music facts!) I just might add some new songs to my iPod!

Julie,

As far as Cody goes, it's just another perspective. He or she is not speaking for anyone but themselves and I didn't really "hear" anything all that negative about the rest of us in that paragraph.

It's not a viewpoint I agree with, but the only thing that does is add it to a very long list.

The conversation on this piece has actually been fairly reasonable for such a hot topic. Though I can be as bad as anyone (and I readily admit it), this is exactly what Patch is meant to do.

And I'm thrilled I could expand your musical horizons.

Jeff

Awwww..Jeff! Here I thought you were getting even by calling me by the wrong name w/the whole twisted riot fiasco and then you go and fix it from July to Julie. What can I say, I've been called worse! That was kind of a cop-out answer, btw. If not admitting that Cody is a teacher or is married to one...or he's is btown like I suspect, how can not back me up here? I mean his reason for the union holding fast is plain idiotic. The union is holding back because you yourself said they have some maniac driving the bus. Then Cody continues to write that all of us who post here are just jealous. Pulease! I wouldn't want to work w/any of the teachers who are currently supporting the GEA. No thanks! I would, however, love to have holidays, institute days and summers off. THAT is a sweet gig!

Beth, this is very true! It's not like there are 6 or 7 teachers at these meetings. It's more like 20 to 30 and a lot of them stand there w/their arms folded. Also, when each and every one of them finishes their long-winded essays, they all bang their hands together. BUT...there are over 400 teachers...so this is just a sampling of those supporting the GEA.

Beth, Your quote "sat among many teachers that I thought I knew, only to realize they are now strangers". makes me so sad. Living in Geneva for over 17 years, I too call many teachers friends and I find it so hard to believe what has happened...And after all is said and done and the "union people" leave for their next victim..we are left with a broken community!!

I plan to attend the meeting to show my support for my children, community and schools. Hold the line, BOE.

The Board Meeting would be a great place for ALL Geneva citizens to show up. While it is obvious to many that we are all suporting the BOE via email, I personally believe that the Union needs to actually SEE the parents/residents really SUPPORTING the BOE. Up until now, according to my observations, the only people that have truly spoken up on behalf of the Union are those that have been asked to do so by a teacher, are married or related to a teacher, or who perhaps are a teacher in another district. Other than that, I do not believe there have been ANY supporters at the BOE meetings, except the green shirts with the mob mentality and the fantasy lifestyle requests. Make sure to sign in when you get there if you would like to speak, and practice your speech beforehand. Your allowance is 2.5 minutes, so be prepared. Be prepared upon arrival. They are picketing consistently before each meeting. It's very impressive :(

I think for every 1 BoE supporter at the meeting, there will be 20 who don't want to publicly stand up to the union for fear of consequences that will be faced by their children in the classroom

Per the GEA website, people in support of GEA should wear blue!!! Please, pick ANY color other than blue or lime green!!!!
@MIke-You got that right! I believe it with all of my heart that our kids would fall victim!

Sorry, didn't know. I deleted my post

I have written the BOE to show my support many times. I wish I could support them in person by attending a meeting. My biggest concern is the potential retribution my children would face when their teachers realized I was strongly supporting the BOE. To anyone who doesn't think this happens...believe me it does...I was a teacher and saw if far too often for issues much less significant.

Hi John. Please pay my tax bill. I did not agree to the referendum. Thanks neighbor!

John S
You will not have to wait a couple of years for your taxes to go up $500-600. They may go up that much next year and that would not include an increase for the teachers. Attend the finance committee meeting at 6 pm Monday at the Coultrap facility. Listen to the tax levy options the board has: 0% levy means a $400 tax increase for the average house, 1.5% levy means @$470 increase and 3% levy means over a $500 increase. That is because the EAV continues to drop and the debt service repayment continues to increase. The meeting will last less than 45 minutes - 6:00 pm Monday at the Coultrap facility, followed by a special board meeting at 7:00 pm.

The referendum passed by a mere 100 votes. Not exactly an overwhelming show of support. Like Jeff, I'd be much obliged if you paid my tax bill too.

It is the green-SHIRTED monster which doth mock The meat it feeds on. (Billy Shakespeare, updated, from Iago in Othello)

Jim,

How dare you be a voice of reason! The next thing you know Bob McQuillan will be coming after you.

Jeff

Huh? How is that story even close to relevant?

How about if "Julie" got a raise every year no matter what, until she was making more money than the owner of the store. One year, when the economy was particularly bad, the owner said, "Julie, can just keep your salary the same until the store starts doing better?"

Julie was furious. Didn't the owner know how hard she worked? And after all, it's not HER fault that the owners business was in trouble. So Julie said, if I don't get my raise, I'm going to strike! and if you try to fire me, I'll sue you!
Then Julie put a sign in her yard that said, "I (love) Julie"

One Could Also Allude To Another (Apophrycal) Version Of The Sad Story:

There was a local business where the owner of the business wanted to try to balance his budget. His children were employed by the father's business. The children each wanted to make more income than the economic market justified. The father said he had no money to give. They told him he had a discretionary $30 million dollar reserve fund, as their excuse. Dad said not now, not with the way things are. So the children decided the best way to force good old Dad to up their wages was to stop working til they got their way. (I have heard that THIS version of the story appalls many.)

Laurie,
Your story puts nothing in perspective...the teachers are not being "put out on the street" so the district can put more dimes in it's pocket....public schools are not "for profit."
I find it ironic that the literature theme that occurs in many of our districts novels and writing units is about standing up for what you believe...individuality, strength of character, etc. So, if there are teachers that don't support the union ideology, as we suspect there are....why haven't we heard from them? Because, as was mentioned earlier, it would be professional suicide.
I hope there is soon one voice, then another, until they are shouting above the din of greenshirts clapping at the board meeting.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." MLKing

That is a good story. I like Geneva Police officers. Probably the high taxes in Geneva made it hard for him to buy a house here.

I think newer teachers should be paid more, too. But when you have to pay the librarian and the drivers ed teacher over 100,000, there just isn't enough to go around.

I wish we had a big, bottomless bowl of money so everyone could be happy.

The end.

Laurie we all have a story to tell so I think I will tell mine. My husband has not received a raise in 5 years. Thankfully, I have been able to receive very modest raises. However, my raises have not covered all the increases we have had to endure - property taxes, health insurance, car insurance, utilities, groceries. I could go on and on. So what did we have to do? We had to balance our own budget to meet what we have coming in. That leaves no extra money for fun things with our kids. Just the reality. Well the moral of this story is everyone has to balance their budget including the BOE.

Rob,

Not only am I not sure what specific meeting you're talking about, but I doubt I could answer the question - right now.

Jeff

Rosie, And I believe that the way those starting teachers put in time and earn pay increases is through the step and lane increases. Whoohoo...someone is finally starting to get it.

Freudian slip?

Thank you for your insight and validating what a lot of us our feeling!

Here is the real question, would you take a job in Geneva making less money if they did away with the step and lane process if one was offered? Would you even apply? Keep in mind you said you were paying for you masters. If they BOE has it's way down the road, you will not be making more money for it. PLEASE BE HONEST ABOUT IT!

Laurie...first may I give a huge shout out and say that I am honored by you using my name in your story. It's too bad it really didn't reflect what is going on here. However...I do love the reply from Jerri and her keen understanding that the GEA is living in some kind of fairytale land! Now Laurie, I want you to look up how many people have lost their jobs @ AT & T over the past five years. There have been many because I have a distant relative who was just one of those people and he worked there for 27 years! I'm frustrated by your bizarre attachment to the teachers. It's kinda weird...like a mother protecting her young in a hysterical way. I don't know how many times it has to be posted here that while our real beef is w/the union...teachers who fail to stand up and speak out against them at this point are just as guilty, IMO. You are dedicated, I'll give you that! I'm dedicated to other things where I don't get bent over time and time again.

If you don't like what CEOs get paid, then talk to the owners of the company--you know, the stock-holders--many of whom are union pension plans.

Yes, it's not like that 1st grade teacher needs to earn a living. I mean, so what if their kids have to shop at second hand stores for their clothes. And they don't need to eat as much as that AP Math teachers kid, right? I'm sure there are plenty of shelters out there that would give them a place to sleep. Seriously Bruce, how about you think next time.

You as myself are a large number of Geneva parents who pay out of pocket to help our children!! But the teachers deserve more money?? If they are so stellar why the need for all the tutoring?? This adds to the fact of why the Teachers have it made in Geneva..Parents who make the extra strides to make sure our children are successful!!

Lanes are not in place to guarantee a better teacher. Lanes are in place to reward those that are working on or have a Masters degree. Since the teachers do not receive an individual evaluation, no one knows if a Masters degree guarantees that the teacher is better than before the Masters. Talk to some retired teachers who will tell you that for many years there has been a revolving door at Aurora University of Geneva teachers getting advanced degrees. It got so out of control that reimbursement limits were written into the teacher agreement.

Bob, again with the accusations without the facts. All teachers are evaluated by their Principals. Non-tenured are done every year and tenured teachers are every two years. A new evalutation plan is being implemented this year. There are underperfoming teachers who are on probation. Their salaries have been frozen and they must meet standards and a timeline for improvement or risk not being re-hired.
There are several teachers that have not been re-hired over the years. Yes, tenured as well as non-tenured. The public would not be told their names in order to protect their privacy. The union ensures that the teacher's rights are upheld and that due process is followed.

Bob M,
This is not the forum for you and Jeff Ward (no relation) to flex your egos.

I am a private tutor, and business has never been better. Many families are finding
that their children aren't getting the direct instruction necessary to keep up. I am paid (well), based on my merit. Parents and students evaluate my worth every day...why not the same in public schools? Because the union would cry foul in a minute. But I do think that parents' input is vital in evaluating teacher effectiveness.
Right now, every parent is afraid (rightfully) that their child will be singled out in class if a complaint is made against a teacher....a teacher who is tenure protected by the union.
Doesn't a free market system for teacher's labor seem so logical? Please, Geneva
BOE...hold the line and we all win.

With all due respect to my long lost good twin Beth (that's right - I'm the evil one), I find myself rather amused that Bob has:

1. Threatened to sue me - again!

2. Declared he would never ever respond to me and then responded to me - again!

3. Shared his paranoid delusions about my journalistic intentions one more time.

I sincerely appreciate Bob's ongoing efforts to prove what I've been saying all along. And he says I never compliment him!

Jeff

Or how about this - teachers know which of their colleagues are good and which are not. We give the GEA an amount each year - earmarked for each school. Teachers are given a confidential survey and asked to rank their peers. Salaries are disbursed accordingly.

Rick,

As you may or may not know, I have frequently called out KC Chairman Karen McConnaughay in the Beacon-News. I kid you not, one of my biggest fears was that she would one day look at me and claim to be my mother.

Then she would cut off my right hand. Thankfully, it hasn't happened yet. So now I'm worried Bob McQuillan will say he's my father.

Please don't give me any more nightmares.

Jeff

What you fail to note John S is that Bruce's house is probably not worth what he paid for it, and yet his taxes are going to go up no matter what! FACT is, you have no idea about his financial situation otherwise. And FACT is, his situation doesn't matter, he is still entitled to his opinion regarding this issue, particularly how his tax dollars (more than yours apparently) are spent. Besides, he isn't complaining about paying teachers what they are worth at all. Class warfare is the last thing we need in an already controversial community topic.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's paycheck. You are starting to sound like a GreedEA negotiator.

If you could do what Bruce does, you'd be making what Bruce makes.

Max, And if you could do what a teacher can do, you would be making what they make.

@ Kathy - thank you. @ John S - Really? That's your contribution to this discussion? Well, if it's any consolation to you, my reward for working so hard for so long to be blessed with a nice home is that I get to pay more than 2 1/2 times what you pay so that my kid can sit next to yours in the same class.

I went to school for 20 years. I value a good education. I am a product of Geneva schools as is my wife and my children. I want Geneva to have the absolute best education system we can afford and I recognize the the best doesn't come for free. I'd be in favor of paying above average salaries for exceptional teachers. My complaint is with the system step and lane system that compensates teachers strictly for years of service and credit hours and not in recognition of their performance or the resources of the community. It's simply not logical that our highest paid teacher recently was the Drivers Ed teacher or that we have a kindergarden teacher who makes more than a principal of two elementary schools. The compensation system is not providing incentive or reward to highly performing teachers.

John S, FYI many people in Geneva do not make anywhere near what the top teacher is paid. That isn't even the issue. The bottom line is the district does not have money to spare and the teachers are not asking for a COLA. They are asking for step and lane changes in addition to a COLA and pension spikes and more sick days so they can retire earlier. The entire process needs to change. I think most taxpayers would be fine with a COLA adjustment. The step and lane process has to go.

John S
As a point of clarification, your tax rate was not adjusted down. The tax rate is a result of the school budget. Everyone pays the same tax rate. If your taxes were lowered it was because your assessment was lowered. You have 30 days after you receive your assessment to file an appeal.
Geneva salaries are not in the lower middle when ALL school districts are compared.

John S
I agree that school taxes will increase next year no matter what happens with the teacher agreement. It is a fact. That increase is not only due to the passage of referendum. The increase is also due to the drop in EAV of homes. If EAV had not dropped the last 4 years, increases due to the referendum could have been covered. The combination of lower EAV and higher debt service payments has been a killer. When the district request increased budget while EAV is declining, the taxpayer is hit twice.
Step and lane, while in a majority of current contracts, is starting to disappear and my guess will be gone within 4-5 years. The reason is simple, taxpayers can't afford across the board yearly increases of at least 3%, paying for graduate classes and then a salary increase once a Masters is obtained. The 6% salary spike prior to retirement is a joke and can not be justified by anyone.

John S. not everyone lives on the west side of town and you don't need to make over $100,000 to live here. However, that will be more difficult to do with the increase in the taxes that is coming from the referendum that I did not vote in favor of. Just because step and lane is used in many districts in the state certainly isn't an argument for keeping it. Society and the economy are quite different today than when the step and lane process was instituted. Teachers used to be low paid employees. That is no longer the case. I don't think they are overpaid. I just think they should participate in the solution instead of being a part of the problem.

Jerri,
No one would be screaming about the teacher contract if there wasn't a referendum that has to be paid for now and into the future. Of course teacher salaries are the biggest expense. Lets see we have what about 60-70 other staff members (janitors, admin, principals, vp's and deans) and we have about 150 teachers (this # is a guess). Just remember 25 of those 70 are considered highly paid also. I am not willing to make a stand since the Geneva teachers are in the middle when comes to to teachers salaries in Illinois.

John S
The district has about 900 employees with about 410 of those being certified staff (teachers, nurses, etc.). The referendum isn't the only reason why we have a problem. The decrease in EAV of homes has led to less revenue. This will continue for at least 3 more years. Geneva teachers are not in the middle when it comes to teacher salaries in Illinois.

James,

I don't think the IEA has been running the scam, The state of Illinois never funded and or borrowed these funds. Teachers pay about 9.5% into this fund. Our government officials need to be excused from office from the fraud they have provided to all Illinois residents. We can't keep giving free hand outs when there is nothing to give. But I have enjoyed my 60% state tax increase. Have you?

Why haven't the government officials who "borrowed" from the pension fund been excused from office?

Excellent question, Bob. One would think that with the millions of dollars that the IEA contributes to Illinois politicians each year, they would choose candidates who are better stewards of the pension funds.

And apparently, Mr. Grosso is willing hold the children of Geneva as hostage to make his point that this change must be done.

^Whoa...is there a union rep named Mr. Grosso, too? That's a strange coincidence!

Thomas
Believe me, step and lane is on it's way out. That is why the union is fighting so hard to keep it and the 6% end of career salary spikes. Neither make sense in today's market. The three year 6% spike is part of the GEA request because of the number of teachers planning to retire within the next 4 years. If they get the three year, look ti see 70-75 teachers announce their retirement so they can receive a 22.3% increase over 4 years.

If you think teachers are unwilling to change, administrators would be worse. We are now even paying for the Regional Office which used to be a state cost.

Good for you, Chris! Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion and best of luck to you in the music field. I hope there are no ill comments towards you, but if there are, it seems that you are intelligent enough to ignore them.

Thank you, Chris, for caring enough to make this video. You are a great representation of the future..... I hope some of your former teachers are able to see this.

Very nice job, Chris. You have give ALL of us some food for thought. Good luck with your studies and future career!

First, I thought teachers didn't go into the profession with money as their goal. Even when home values were increasing, it was only a paper gain. You didn't receive any real money unless you sold your house. Though your gain was only paper, your increased taxes were real money out of your pocket. Even if the housing market continued to grow and new people moved into Geneva, the taxes were going to be a problem. With growth comes more building thus more debt thus more taxes. Even with real estate growth, the path we were on was not sustainable. I understand the position that teachers work more than an 8 hour day and sometimes they take classes in the summer but their salary is still based on 180 working days. And it is difficult for me to believe that teachers with 25 years experience are taking summer classes and putting in long days. After 25 years, anyone would have the process down. If teachers with 25 years experience are still taking graduate level classes, I would think the administration should be questioning why.
You are either a teacher, administrator or a spouse of one of the two, so you will always defend the salary of a teacher. When the a large # of teachers are making a 6 figure income for 9.5 months work and then can retire at a guaranteed 75% of the average of their last 4 years salary which was inflated by 22.3%, then there is something wrong with the system. If you can't understand that, we will never agree on the need to change compensation.

I believe the thought is to have merit raises, not to keep teachers at their starting pay. Just because a person furthers their education does not mean they will perform better.

Thomas,
We are talking about a THREE year contract in the WORST Economic times since the great depression! It would take 20 plus years on minimal to no raises to make Geneva even slightly less attractive to new teachers so don't get all the sky is falling on us.

This is absurd thinking. Seriously, set the bar? There are at least 30% of current 304 teachers that fall well below the bar at even average rating. HELLOOOO....I guarantee you that there are at least 1000 highly qualified teachers out of work right now who are above average of this so called bar and would love the opportunity to teach in this district. Why can people not see this??? IMO...all the BOE should offer at this point is for all current teachers to keep their jobs. A couple of months ago I thought it would be fair for a few more things, but now I'm fed up and this is all I'd offer! That's what most of us living outside of fantasyland do most days in the last few years at our place of employment. The only way Geneva isn't going to look green to prospective candidates is when there are truly no openings here because the GEA has infuriated so many residents that no one wants to live here anymore and there will be no need to fill empty classrooms!

Thomas
First, there is no reason to invest $100,000 to become a teacher. ISU is an excellent university and their cost is not $25,000 per year. I believe that an average salary of $72,000 for 180 days of work is a fair salary and still affords the opportunity to live the middle class dream. The ironic thing is that many teachers would probably qualify to purchase a home in Geneva but the property taxes make the home unaffordable.

Alas, here it is....when all else fails and only 10% of the town (including its teachers who live in same town) don't agree with those who support the union we must succomb to low blows to people. Thomas...if I might say...Bob's teachers must have indeed done a number on him because to take on something that your heart believes in that requires countless volunteer hours and CONSTANT re-explanations to people is a quality that I think most people would like to have. It's called passion, not to mention that I would be willing to say that anyone who can explain all of this mess must be quite smart as well. And, each day this goes on, I must admit that I just cannot help but lose support for the teachers as well I have not one shred of respect for C. Young and her union/GEA. If it's true that many of them feel that the union is doing them harm, then for God's sake, SPEAK UP AND STAND UP FOR YOURSELF! There's only so much someone should take before they realize they are being abused by a system. They just might be the ones who had a number done on them by their teachers!

Julie, Julie, Julie!

(Now I sound like Cary Grant!) Calm down young padawan! It is well within the purview of the GEA to ask for raises. No one's being "abused" by any "system." The question is, is the GEA motivated by the best interest of their teachers or by out-of-control animosity? Are their tactics wise or unwise?

If you've watched virtually every episode of The People's Court like I have, you come to realize that 75 percent of winning a small claims court case is shutting up and letting the other guy hang themselves - and they almost always do just that.

Given the opportunity, Bob McQuillan will hang himself every time. And the GEA is doing a magnificent job of committing political suicide. We're I on the D304 board, I'd simply shut my mouth and let the union do all the talking. That GEA open letter has given the board all the political capital they need.

Ah! But if you and your compatriots do show up Monday, you better be prepared, calm, respectful and as difficult as it may be, unemotional. Because if you can't do that, you risk making the GEA look good by comparison.

Jeff

Thomas
I have a disdain for any profession that doesn't understand economics and ignores what is happening around them. Think about it, if the teachers would have walked to the table in February and said something like: look we realize the BOE did not ask us to reopen our contract even though every other district reopened or renegotiated and gave concessions. We also realize that the support staff and vast majority of administrators took at least a one year salary freeze. We realized that property taxes have risen in despite of lower assessed values. We are pleased to be working in the Geneva District and we are willing to take a one year salary freeze as long as all other benefits remain the same. The board would have agreed and no one would have missed a step. Instead the union allowed the relationship between the BOE, the union and the teachers to implode. You have to ask, was the relationship really that strong to begin with? I honestly believe that they majority of Geneva teachers are not happy with developments over the last three months. Those teachers that really feel that a strike is the worst possible thing to happen need to band together and inform he GEA that they want the agreement signed by Thursday at 5:00 pm.
No one except the GEA and BOE knows the tone of the negotiations from day one but we certainty know how they feel about each other now.

Really? Your giving Bob credit for the BOE moving on giving the lane movement? I call B/S. It took the teachers explaining what it was and how they were hiring new teachers with a masters degree and putting them in that lane when a current teacher was left behind. If I remember correctly, Bob said, "yea, that's not right". Oh yea, for the record, I am not a teacher, or related to one.

Look whether you want to give credit to Bob or not, you have to acknowledge the influence this public forum has had on negotiations. The growing public anger that is expressed on this website on a daily basis is a reason why the board continues to take a harder line in negotiations, I am sure they easily conceded lane advancement because the added cost of providing that for 36 teachers is chump change compared to what they will save if they can throw out the entire salary schedule that applies to every teacher in the district. All these other "benefits" are small potatoes compared to eliminating step and lane, I am sure Bob knows that and has communicated that either privately or publicly to the board. It seems just like yesterday all the comments on here were about enrollmentgate and the "Board of Spenders" and how they should all resign and be replaced, Boy how quickly things change now the board are heroes for standing up to the greedy Union Greenshirts who should all be fired and replaced. And the song remains the same.

Thomas
Rest assured that no BOE member is calling me and asking me for advice on the teachers agreement. I would assume most burnt my phone number a few years ago! Remember just this week someone wrote that the board ignores me and if it wasn't for me this issue would have been addressed already.
I have been willing to stand in front of 200 "greenshirts" and express my opinion. I was taught that if you feel strongly about something, you have the right and responsibility to spaek out. I have no problem if others disagree with me, that's what makes the world go round. I don't hate any teacher and would be willing to sit down and talk with anyone at any time.
When the issue came up about lane advancement for those obtaining a Masters degree, I agreed they should be grandfathered and compensated. At that time, neither side's offer was made public.
I never called the BOE "the board of spenders" nor did I ask them to resign. Do I think someone knew about "enrollmentgate?" Yes I do. Believe me, if the current or future boards make unrealistic decisions, I will be there to question them. I hope others will also stay involved. It is in the best interest of all of us to know and understanding how are taxes are being spent.

Julie,

Excellent!

Now, as a Jedi Master, I want you to meditate on the phrase, "the more the GEA steps in it, the better off we'll be."

I can't remember when I've heard wiser words!

Jeff

Only if the teachers make the wrong choice.

If teachers allow their union leadership to destroy the respect the community has always had for them, then yes, it will be very difficult going for them in the future.

And the LWVIL is wrong on this issue. A minority, sometimes as little as one vote, ALWAYS has control of the vote, from that narrow point of view.

It isn't about the informal legislative process that goes on behind the scenes for every vote. It is about making sure that any change really needs to be made, before launching a process that is fraught with danger to the financial stability of the State of Illinois. We are already somewhat unstable. Allowing any increased financial burden must be a choice of a great majority of our citizens -- not just those who can be swayed by public employee unions, not just those who pay little or no attention to underlying issues -- and not those who are beholden to corporate or other interests who expect to benefit financially even though the rest of us are losing jobs, homes and futures.

VOTE YES !

Vote to make a 3/5 majority required !

We need MORE PROTECTION for TAX-PAYERS !